To start with the end, thanks for the link to that video, it was very helpful, and it's always nice to find someone who is both a serious scholar and also genuinely interested in heathenry as a spiritual practice. I look forward to learning more from him, as the continental Saxons have not been a focus of mine at all.
Traditional Western Occultism Sources? As for traditional western occultism and its take on the planes, do you have any sources to recommend besides JMG's blog posts and The Cosmic Doctrine? That's where I've picked up most of what I have on the subject, but it feels somewhat like there are big pieces missing from my understanding (of course, I realize that much of that is the need for meditation and unpacking things myself).
Some Sources on the Germanic Soul Complex For the Germanic soul-complex, I feel a bit more qualified to share some sources and opinions. Like you, I was introduced to the idea by Thorsson, but I had a rather idiosyncratic reason for really diving into learning more about it - I wanted to use it a game mechanic in my homebrew D&D setting! I arrived at a rather unsatisfactory game mechanic, but found many more sources on the subject, though Thorsson's fingerprints can be found on many of them.
First off, Stephen Pollington's The Elder Gods discusses the evidence for these concepts and does a bit of comparative work with the Norse (that's one reason I found the Old Saxon video so interesting - another source to compare!). I'd say the main additions to what you discuss above from him are magen (source of modern "main" as in "he strove with might and main!") and hael (source of modern "hale" as in "he looks hale and hearty after taking up his exercise routine"). Magen seems to mean something like "power, strength, force" and maybe had a chi/mana-like sense to it. Aethem was another word that had similar overtones, but is etymologically linked with ond and more properly seems to mean "breath-when-by-breath-we-mean-the-spiritual/magical-things-that-breath-does" like prana or spiritus. Hael meant largely what it means now - good health/luck, but it likely had more of a spiritual/magical overtone to it in Old English.
In A Modern Guide to Heathenry Galina Krasskova goes very inclusive in talking about the soul complex. Despite looking pretty clearly Thorsson-derived for much of it, she adds in more concepts, like the Mod talked about in the video, the idea that godhi might be a spiritual property held by a religious practitioner and not just a title, a kin-fylgja which is like a fetch, but for a whole clan, wih, as in "sacredness", and litr the color or hue of life, which was one of the things granted to Ask and Embla along with wod, ond, speech, sight, and hearing.
I'm not sure the degree to which I find the extra things Krasskova talks about as "part of the soul", but I also haven't been thinking about it very long and haven't meditated on it yet. I do think they at least to good ways to try to further understand the subtle world through a heathen lens, whether or not some of those parts are part of our soul or outside it.
Trying to Mix Oil and Watercolor You used an interesting metaphor here, and one I'm not sure I agree with, but that is certainly compelling. If I've learned one thing from JMG, it's that trying to arrive at "natural science" style comprehensive understanding of spiritual matters and the subtler planes is deeply misguided - we're likely dealing with different metaphors that are the best approximations possible for something ineffable, and some of those metaphors might form into systems that make sense together, while others don't.
That being said, let's charge right ahead with trying to get them to make sense together to see what we might learn! Lyke/Lich seems as straightforward to me as it does to you. I agree that Ond is primarily etheric, though I wonder how best to link it with the physical action of breathing, and I hadn't considered the possible link with the spiritual - the spiritual plane is very much the one I have the fuzziest understanding of. Hugh and myne as primarily astral with potential links to the mental fits with my thinking as well. The Fetch as primarily spiritual makes sense to me as well. I had thought of wod as likely primarily etheric, with maybe an element of astral, on the idea that the "lower astral" is about passions, but your point about inspiration potentially fitting more with the mental plane makes good sense.
Now, Hamingja/Luck and Wyrd/Orlog are very interesting and tough. I've had some trouble coming to a good understanding of "Hamingja" and have often seen it equated with the old, much richer idea of Luck as not random chance, but something a bit closer to karma. I had been thinking of it as Etheric, but I'm wondering if it might more properly be spiritual? Similarly, I struggled with where to put wyrd/orlog, and I was thinking mental and spiritual, bridging the two, but that was largely because I didn't know where else to go.
One thing all this makes me think about is how the etheric seems to often be the "interface" between the more familiar physical plane and the subtler plane (for example, the tingly feeling many folks get from magic or spiritual experiences). I wonder if this might be a source of confusion sometimes - for example, a being or a force that is primarily mental or spiritual somehow gets felt as an etheric sensation, and so gets assumed to be etheric (at least by a novice like myself).
Okay, that's quite long enough, I'm sure, but I look forward to hearing more about the Norse myths as initiation, as I'm not familiar with Maria Kvilhaug's work, but I've read a bit about the idea that Baldr's death might be an initiation ritual, and I have some thoughts of my own about Tyr's pledge to Fenris, but I'll wait to share on the relevant post.
no subject
To start with the end, thanks for the link to that video, it was very helpful, and it's always nice to find someone who is both a serious scholar and also genuinely interested in heathenry as a spiritual practice. I look forward to learning more from him, as the continental Saxons have not been a focus of mine at all.
Traditional Western Occultism Sources?
As for traditional western occultism and its take on the planes, do you have any sources to recommend besides JMG's blog posts and The Cosmic Doctrine? That's where I've picked up most of what I have on the subject, but it feels somewhat like there are big pieces missing from my understanding (of course, I realize that much of that is the need for meditation and unpacking things myself).
Some Sources on the Germanic Soul Complex
For the Germanic soul-complex, I feel a bit more qualified to share some sources and opinions. Like you, I was introduced to the idea by Thorsson, but I had a rather idiosyncratic reason for really diving into learning more about it - I wanted to use it a game mechanic in my homebrew D&D setting! I arrived at a rather unsatisfactory game mechanic, but found many more sources on the subject, though Thorsson's fingerprints can be found on many of them.
First off, Stephen Pollington's The Elder Gods discusses the evidence for these concepts and does a bit of comparative work with the Norse (that's one reason I found the Old Saxon video so interesting - another source to compare!). I'd say the main additions to what you discuss above from him are magen (source of modern "main" as in "he strove with might and main!") and hael (source of modern "hale" as in "he looks hale and hearty after taking up his exercise routine"). Magen seems to mean something like "power, strength, force" and maybe had a chi/mana-like sense to it. Aethem was another word that had similar overtones, but is etymologically linked with ond and more properly seems to mean "breath-when-by-breath-we-mean-the-spiritual/magical-things-that-breath-does" like prana or spiritus. Hael meant largely what it means now - good health/luck, but it likely had more of a spiritual/magical overtone to it in Old English.
In A Modern Guide to Heathenry Galina Krasskova goes very inclusive in talking about the soul complex. Despite looking pretty clearly Thorsson-derived for much of it, she adds in more concepts, like the Mod talked about in the video, the idea that godhi might be a spiritual property held by a religious practitioner and not just a title, a kin-fylgja which is like a fetch, but for a whole clan, wih, as in "sacredness", and litr the color or hue of life, which was one of the things granted to Ask and Embla along with wod, ond, speech, sight, and hearing.
I'm not sure the degree to which I find the extra things Krasskova talks about as "part of the soul", but I also haven't been thinking about it very long and haven't meditated on it yet. I do think they at least to good ways to try to further understand the subtle world through a heathen lens, whether or not some of those parts are part of our soul or outside it.
Trying to Mix Oil and Watercolor
You used an interesting metaphor here, and one I'm not sure I agree with, but that is certainly compelling. If I've learned one thing from JMG, it's that trying to arrive at "natural science" style comprehensive understanding of spiritual matters and the subtler planes is deeply misguided - we're likely dealing with different metaphors that are the best approximations possible for something ineffable, and some of those metaphors might form into systems that make sense together, while others don't.
That being said, let's charge right ahead with trying to get them to make sense together to see what we might learn! Lyke/Lich seems as straightforward to me as it does to you. I agree that Ond is primarily etheric, though I wonder how best to link it with the physical action of breathing, and I hadn't considered the possible link with the spiritual - the spiritual plane is very much the one I have the fuzziest understanding of. Hugh and myne as primarily astral with potential links to the mental fits with my thinking as well. The Fetch as primarily spiritual makes sense to me as well. I had thought of wod as likely primarily etheric, with maybe an element of astral, on the idea that the "lower astral" is about passions, but your point about inspiration potentially fitting more with the mental plane makes good sense.
Now, Hamingja/Luck and Wyrd/Orlog are very interesting and tough. I've had some trouble coming to a good understanding of "Hamingja" and have often seen it equated with the old, much richer idea of Luck as not random chance, but something a bit closer to karma. I had been thinking of it as Etheric, but I'm wondering if it might more properly be spiritual? Similarly, I struggled with where to put wyrd/orlog, and I was thinking mental and spiritual, bridging the two, but that was largely because I didn't know where else to go.
One thing all this makes me think about is how the etheric seems to often be the "interface" between the more familiar physical plane and the subtler plane (for example, the tingly feeling many folks get from magic or spiritual experiences). I wonder if this might be a source of confusion sometimes - for example, a being or a force that is primarily mental or spiritual somehow gets felt as an etheric sensation, and so gets assumed to be etheric (at least by a novice like myself).
Okay, that's quite long enough, I'm sure, but I look forward to hearing more about the Norse myths as initiation, as I'm not familiar with Maria Kvilhaug's work, but I've read a bit about the idea that Baldr's death might be an initiation ritual, and I have some thoughts of my own about Tyr's pledge to Fenris, but I'll wait to share on the relevant post.